Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
I don't know what's happening in your run, might check it out later.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
I updated the rules. The very fact that the cheat code is not used means it is allowed to use the features it provides. The rules only ban use of those cheat codes that give unfair advantage. If unfair advantage is gained by legitimate in-game glitches, it makes no sense to ban them just because they also happen to be hidden behind the code.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
So I was looking at the manual and the only game explicitly mentioned as a monster source was Monster Rancher 1. If the publisher of this game explicitly encourages using "Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine Demo Disc 14" for this game to grab monsters from, then it is allowed. If not, it is not allowed. We can not possibly handle arbitrary images used in movies, we should only limit ourselves to images that are intended for use with a game.
So far this movie looks like it should be rejected. The rules never addressed this, so I'll explain the problems that arise from using arbitrary images in the judgment. Unless someone finds the official encouragement from the publisher of this game to use the CD used here.
The fact that the game constantly asks the player to try all the CDs they have doesn't mean we can allow all of them.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
More common means there are more branches that use the technique. For example, for Super Mario World, there's only one branch performing "game end glitch", therefore it's the only one that has it in the label. Some technique that is common for all the branches, like Backwards Long Jump in Super Mario 64 is not mentioned in the branches that have it. Instead, the one avoiding it is called "no Backwards Long Jump".
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
Since we decide this by statistics, we should check which one is more common. If need be, even RTA branches may be considered. Usually avoiding some basic glitch is marked explicitly, because it's more common to have those glitches than to avoid them. Game breaking glitches are rare, so they are highlighted when they are used instead.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
You can do that to verify some theories. Overall, it shouldn't be required of course. Not loading the existing states is the key.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
Non-determinism means anything can happen. They don't depend on proper savestates, so they don't really use/test them. Otherwise they'd have been fixed years ago.
My fix got reverted because some other consoles broke, and fixing them broke the savestates for yet other consoles. It's a mess, and you shouldn't imagine limits to what can happen. Even memory corruption in the app, and this can result in literally anything.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
This branch can be considered full completion. In this game, you have to resque the family members to beat it, and you also have a single type of upgrade you can get. Each of these gets awarded to you upon beating the bosses. Using the glitch present in the any% movie also means it is a vaultable goal (not that this movie is going to be vaulted, just documenting the bookkeeping info).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
The thing is, the state doesn't update a certain variable, and it changes really often. It changes how much code is executed per frame. Literally EVERY time you load a state is unique, it's impossible to get identical outcome.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
Crap, the link I needed is dead. I'd have to build mame from source. This won't be soon at all :(
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
Impressive job with console verification of the glitch! I'll see what SRAM might mean in this case.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
I guess you're using MAME? Its savestates are non-deterministic, they change the amount of cycles left to be executed basically every time you load them. A certain value doesn't get updated. So if there's some randomness to what you grab, it gets messed up on such state reloads.
I had a patch that fixed this, and you could probably try a build with it, but getting around to making it is problematic for me atm. There's a place where interim MAME builds are hosted, if you're willing to look for a commit where this patch is present (if got reverted eventually), I'll give you the clues.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
I'll just keep bugging Nach until the movie is there. This submission served its goal of defining the policy, so it doesn't really matter what happens to it. It's nicer when the author cancels, that way we don't need to reject it making it look like something bad (to some) :D
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
I already explained that plagiarism wouldn't be the reason to reject it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
I'm only aware of such examples when it was more entertaining, and I linked to them. Cases when neither gameplay optimality nor entertainment were improved, I can't recall. I hope at least what the rules say about this is clear now.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
Update upon recent IRC talk:
Nach's stance is that obsoletions must contain actual gameplay improvements, so resync submissions shouldn't be accepted. But he prefers another way of recognizing efforts like this: adding an updated movie to the publication. That way, the current publication persists as perfectly valid (because not syncing on console doesn't inherently mean the movie is invalid, and console sync has never been a requirement), and the publication also persists with all its content. And at the same time, the resynced movie gets the proper place right in the publication module, duly supported by the site as an update of (still) the same movie.
This option doesn't seem to have any downsides, and in future, it wouldn't even need new submissions. But actual regulations will be decided later, when Nach is around next time.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
Oh man, they weren't even planning to make things bearable for us :D
They endorse this feature on the very damn box cover!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 only talks about what you can do with a work published under its terms. Of course you can take someone's submission, tweak it as you like, and even submit here. This is perfectly fine according to the license we use. Accusing the site in not abiding by it, despite of explicitly using it for all our contributions, is a very bold move that has to be backed up, otherwise one is going to lose a bit of respect. So please quote which parts of Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 we violate please.
As far as plagiarism goes, it is covered by our existing rules:
MovieRules wrote:
Do not claim authorship for something you haven't made
Taking another user's movie and submitting it under your name is strictly forbidden. Such offense is potential grounds for a ban.
This doesn't apply to situations where a similar or identical solution is discovered and implemented independently.
This is exactly what Warp quotes as a definition of plagiarism, and it is indeed not allowed.
However, I should clarify, that plagiarism wouldn't be a reason to reject his theoretical movie. Once such a submission is made, it's trivial to properly credit the actual author, and I don't have doubts Warp wold do that according to our license.
The actual reason to reject such a movie is two-fold. The first part was addressed by Moth. The second part doesn't seem to be covered in the Movie Rules. The thing is, it would have the same gameplay length as the old movie, but even then obsoletions can happen.
For Moons, we can accept an improvement that has the same input length as the old movie, or beats the game within the same time, if it's significantly more entertaining. This would have happened to the latest warpless SMB run if it had no time-wise improvements to MrWint's movie. There was also an accepted submission or Magician Lord that had the same gameplay overall and only tweaked the ending a bit. It was accepted because it was significantly more entertaining, despite of having no gameplay improvements.
In cases when there's no time-wise improvement, nor entertainment improvements, just cosmetic changes that don't actually make the run more entertaining (the contrary in fact), the movie gets rejected.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
Since this is a complicated movie (due to the nature of the game, and its length), could you briefly talk about differences and improvements compared to 567M? If they are already mentioned somewhere, just link or quote. It'd help with the future decision immensely, whoever will be making it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Changing the verdict to having it obsolete the published movie. This was brought on by discussion in the forum topic as well the discussion regarding Chrono Trigger. Obsoleting the published movie keeps are options open for a future movie. We have the option of deciding to have a no glitch any%, 100%, an "all aspects" type category, or none at all.
The obsoleted movie had quite decent rating, so maybe it should have been unobsoleted years ago when we were doing unobsoletions, especially given that pirohiko's movie uses a major skip glitch not used (nor known?) in 567M.
If this run is accepted, and follows the same rules as the latter, the obsoletion chain will be changed. But I have no idea about what this game is, so it won't be my decision :D
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
Warp wrote:
Memory wrote:
That would be plagiarism so yes it would.
Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 wrote:
You are free to: Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially.
Under the following terms: Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made.
The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.
Which part of Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 is talking about plagiarism and rejections? Because I can't find how it regulates any of that, nor can I see the relevance.
Warp wrote:
Is it too much to ask to abide by your own rules and licenses? You cannot publish something under a certain usage license and then arbitrarily revoke people's rights provided by that license.
(Well, I suppose technically speaking you can. Nobody is stopping you. But for consistency and fairness you shouldn't. If you promise something, and use a legal license to give people some rights, you should stand behind your words. If different rules are being imposed than granted by that license, use a different license. (And I'm using the plural "you" here, for the record.))
Which part of whose actions appears as not abiding by our own rules and licenses to you?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11305
Location: RU
Double-click with left mouse button.
Or right-click and pick Show Menu, where you pick View - Switch to fullscreen.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
They endorse this feature on the very damn box cover!