TASVideos

Posted: 5/22/2014 6:48 AM

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feos

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I'm going to do resync on this encode. Guga, weren't you planning it as well? My setup looks pretty stable.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/22/2014 6:19 AM

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feos

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Nach wrote:

I don't think you understood what I was saying. I'm not trying to enforce tagging with low%, I want us to come up with clear labeling that uses what we currently call game-end glitch, that identifies that much of the game is being skipped, akin to what low% conveys. If you're still not getting it: 1) I didn't say anywhere we must name this low% (in fact I told Guga to publish the run using "game-end glitch", really, check the encodes) 2) I don't think the label game-end glitch is ideal for what it is trying to convey.

It's a shame that you didn't appear in the first thread where glitched branch was discussed. We tried all possible solutions, and from all of them "X glitch" is the most clear. Though, once we define game-breaking glitch like I defined it earlier, it can even go okay with the title "glitched" without further explanation, because that definitions considers relativeness of the label: glitched is a run that's dramatically faster than the fastest run without that glitch. But people wanted 2 unresolvable extremes. So we had to include both and enforce none. Also, don't forget about "warp glitch" runs, "SRAM glitch" runs and all other 'X glitch" runs. They all may sound silly, and still be ambiguous, but they abstract as much as possible from the existing situation, and try to give the viewer the clearest possible impression of what to expect. I personally find only one problem with GEG label - it's a spoiler :) Looking at the label "glitched" you expect extreme WTF'ness, but have no idea what it is before watching, and still can be surprised. After GEG label, there's no surprise. So I'd call it so pedantic that it reduces the soul. But again, it's as pedantic as 40% of the audience wanted it to be. Maybe they are all wrong :D

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/21/2014 6:27 PM

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feos

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Dyshonest wrote:

How do you figure that a run that completes ten stages and beats the game is too similar to a run that doesn't even complete one but beats the game?

I said 2 runs that beat all stages are more similar to each other than those that beat most stages and only 1.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/21/2014 5:50 PM

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feos

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Since it's a whole different question than precise branch, and "getting rid" of Star movies is serious business, I suggest a poll. Though I predict people just LOVE the 12-minute run so much they won't let it be replaced by Deign's.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/21/2014 5:35 PM

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feos

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If you resurrect Deign's run, and then get glitchless submitted, won't those 2 be more similar to each other, and the 2 current branches? We want more variety, by sticking to the 3 branches Nach was talking about we get the most of it.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/21/2014 12:38 PM

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feos

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adelikat wrote:

feos, It would be as incorrect to tag those movies as low% as it is to title this movie with low%

A fortiori we don't need what Nach's trying to enforce.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/21/2014 11:58 AM

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feos

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All those runs can just have a movie tag Low% completion. And runs that glitch to the end but don't deal with percentage, don't need it. I don't see how using low% as a branch for glitched runs helps to solve anything. As for the title "warp glitch", it's used when large glitchy skips are not straight to ending, but somewhere within the course.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/21/2014 5:43 AM

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feos

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Nach wrote:

In the course of seeing what was done here, it was realized two problems with game-end glitch alone: 1) It is not necessarily a clear tag.

"Clear" is subjective. So we have to call "clear" what the majority calls "clear", if there aren't unsolvable contradictions with that. Your judgment text doesn't address any real problems of categorization that arise once this is called game end glitch. So I'm assuming those problems aren't clear for you. Neither are they clear for me, nor for the audience. Hence they don't exist.

Nach wrote:

2) It doesn't identify that the run is in fact low%, which in most cases is reported by the game with some completion number appearing somewhere.

From looking at how Super Metroid is branched, one can easily learn what is low% and what is game end glitch. Low% is something that uses the same approach as normal any% (intended routes), but collects less items. On the other hand, there's an approach of beating the game not aiming for completion percentage at all, it's just not cared about. It is, beating the game using "large glitchy skips", "game-breaking glitches", or whatever you call it. Glitches that break the game can vary, but there's something that's usually understood by them:

A term commonly used to describe some glitch that breaks the gameplay logics applied/assumed by the developers, resulting in notable contradictions between how the game is supposed to be played and how it can be played instead. Game-breaking glitches use to involve read-access memory or save data corruption. They also usually cut down the time of the run dramatically, comparing to the fastest one that avoids the given glitch.

To remove ambiguity, we don't rely on using some glitch or not using it, when creating a new branch, or obsoleting some existing one. We rely on how much it differs from an existing branch. Because, as I'm tired of repeating, unique content if what justifies new branches in Moons. Сonclusion: if we have 2 branches, one of which beats the game using the intended routes, and another one not using them, and they are so different that they are published separately, we must tell which one uses the glitched approach, because it's much less common.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/21/2014 5:20 AM

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feos

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ALAKTORN wrote:

why is it being published as “low%”? multiple people have explained how completely wrong that is

Nach wrote:

I personally tango to my own metal, and like to handle things in a shocking and most electrifying manner, although fairly so.

That's why. We all are wrong, Nach is right. Except there's nothing shocking or electrifying, it's just wrong.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/20/2014 3:38 PM

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feos

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Those 2 runs tell the exact completion % because they aimed to that exact %. Not like this run, which can't be measured any way similar to them. Amount of robot masters beaten isn't completion %, and it was never a goal in any MM run.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/20/2014 1:17 PM

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feos

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I like the decision on this movie, though I don't think "low%" is going to tell anything about the main goal of this run, and how it was achieved: about a game-breaking glitch. In other words, that label doesn't address how the intended route is dealt with. If one looks at Super Metroids, one might think this run avoids game-breaking glitches, since low% runs of SM avoid them. Voting for giving this run the most telling and already traditional name, "game end glitch".

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/20/2014 11:46 AM

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feos

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Added Lua history :P http://code.google.com/p/feos-tas/source/browse/trunk/Misc/pcsx-13f.7z

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/20/2014 8:57 AM

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feos

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Warepire wrote:

Now un-cancel that Kirby submission!

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/20/2014 6:55 AM

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feos

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jlun2 wrote:

Patashu wrote:
So what does this mean for SMW TASing? Is chuck eat now banned in non-ACE categories? Or is it OK as long as you don't get an 'executes data as code' kind of sprite in your powerup box?
Wasn't there a similar case regarding some death glitch in Battle Toads?

Correct. They both were proven to be deserving publication because they are generally different runs. One's execution doesn't exhaust another's. Just like those 2 Rockmans. Just like SML2. If jumping in wrong place causes the game to go ACE, it doesn't mean we must ban jumping in all the rest categories, right?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/19/2014 10:40 AM

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feos

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I believe Rockman 1 deserves 3 branches: - broken to death (this submission) - heavily glitched, final Boss killed (current run) - glitchless (all pray that Bisqwit finishes it)

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/19/2014 10:33 AM

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feos

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When the first level starts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM6xDPqfY3c

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/19/2014 10:26 AM

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feos

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If loading a state 10 frames before the desync really occurs leads to another desync, we can reduce the overhead as an option. But overall, if it works like that, it won't be noticeable, because artifacts occur during those overhead periods and are cut away from the video. I suppose it still needs to be 10 frame of extra footage. But if anything goes wrong, we can do it like this: Desync at frame 80. Save TAS sound state at frame 75. When sync script is at final pass, load that state only when at frame 85. So we still have the same overhead, but it's not BEFORE desync, but AROUND it. About checkpoints, I was under impression that it saves them no matter what as long as 1) first non-lag frame occurs, 2) some frame is after movie end. If it's possible to load them at lag frames, no problem, make them work exactly similar to desync savestates. But I saw emulator doesn't receive commands until bootup process is over. Can you explain?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/19/2014 6:37 AM

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feos

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I will only come back after some hours.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/19/2014 6:26 AM

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feos

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The sound looks glitchy, it clips after each kick-drum sample.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/19/2014 5:40 AM

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feos

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Patashu wrote:

Even if technically this and the previous TAS are the same category, it would be a big shame for the site if one of the best, glitchiest, most entertaining TASes became obsoleted (which is as good as 'gone from the site' in a few senses). It should be allowed to co-exist at least until a 'purer' TAS replaces it. In the mean time the category labels obviously won't be very accurate/meaningful, but I think that's an OK tradeoff to make. (I wouldn't ask for it if the previous TAS wasn't as good as it was!)

You see how the current Rockman isn't obsoleted neither by entertainment, nor by optimization? Yeah, but all these guys still want it to be removed, and replaced with a "trial version" of it. "You aren't TASVideos PRO, so you're only allowed to enjoy 5% of the real thing. Sorry." Still they don't have enough balls to say that the Star content itself is obsolete there. SM64 0-star can still be an example. One movie was more optimized than another, and despite of having terrible camera moves, it obsoleted the starred movie. Then it was obsoleted as well by more optimal, and more entertaining run, returning it a Star. Can anything like that happen here? Can Bisqwit's glitchless run's content really replace the current run's Star content? If so, let them compete for it the natural way. Also, I notice complete ignorance to already existing (and justified) precedents.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/18/2014 8:46 PM

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feos

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I just did a test and it seems while at high resolutions OGL2 GPU flashes black while loading states, it doesn't actually freeze the game, so except for a couple overhead frames, 2 videos made with lowres TAS GPU and hires OGL2 match frames very well. It means, we can use that to finally add a feature for getting rid of resync artifacts in video and audio. But alone I couldn't do it, because the script is complicated as hell. So I'm requesting this tweak: whenever desync occurs, make a savestate 10 frames before it's being done currently. And store the current frame in the table, and as a state name. So that when sync script gets to that frame, it loads the state that's 10 fames back. This way we will have 10 extra frames in the video per desync. If it also creates a file, listing all these frames by comma, we could use it in avs to cut out those 10 frames. The same goes to creating TAS SPU checkpoints. Checkpoint creation must happen 10 frames after they're created now, then the current frame number is stored, and written as a save name. So that when it gets to those frames, it will as well load a state from 10 frames back. Note that I'm now using a version that accounts for "while true do" loop delay, and loads all regular states 1 frame earlier, which now doesn't let the emulator draw desynced picture. Also, I added Sleep(1) to pcsx.suspend. So, BadPotato, if you will try implementing the request, use my latest versions of script and emulator: http://feos-tas.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Misc/pcsx-13f.7z http://feos-tas.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Misc/PcsxrrEncodeWofkflow.7z EDIT: Forgot to add that I also removed the need to use GD, because we don't need to deal with existing image files anymore, everything is done by a single lua function, other GPU's rather than TAS one aren't needed.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/18/2014 7:04 AM

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feos

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I and Guga were speaking about not making a cutsceneless encode at all, since it's rather short anyway, but with OoB script instead.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/18/2014 7:03 AM

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feos

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I see. Eternal SPU, PEOPS and TAS without movie mode appear to be basically the same thing. I may try looking at what it actually does, and why, maybe some desyncs still happen sometimes. Still would depend on a game IMO. But we know now that Abe can be TASed without this option and sound way better.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/17/2014 5:23 PM

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feos

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Looks superb. Link to video

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/17/2014 12:34 PM

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feos

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Scepheo wrote:

There's nothing 'arbitrary' about this entire TAS. It's just sheer luck that it's possible to wrong warp from a teleport to the ending sequence. There's no memory corruption, code editing or code execution here. As such, the 'glitched' branch name would, according to your description, be wrong.

So was that intended by the devs or not? If not, it's a bug (glitch).

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

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